I think the best critique I have ever heard about "woke" shows becomes the litmus test. Is the trait the characters complete identity or just a trait in a more complex and nuanced development of the character. So if the character is gay, is that the only dimension of his character? Or is he a fully fleshed out character who happens to be gay? It is poor character development if a single trait completely defines your character.
Exactly 👏🏻 They had no story to tell, only an identity to advertise for. A whole movie made around the writer or director’s self-insert with nothing worthwhile to say. Only “look at me!”
Yes that is what condemns most of the “updated for modern audiences” fare. Watchmen was unique in that they did the work to make their characters fit the story
Now full disclosure I haven't seen it, but I can appreciate that. I remember there being a big fan backlash when it came out, I think another issue has to do with established IP's. I think that requires either an open minded audience or those types of changes have to be made to characters who do not have fully developed back stories. The more explored and developed the IP the less wiggle room the audience will give the writers for changes.
Very true. With established IPs, part of the criticism is judging if the changes made were justified based on the medium. In some cases they are. In others (Ozymandius’ change in personality), they’re not.
Interesting, see with established IP I think instead of fleshing out or adding to established characters, create a new one. As much as many people have criticisms of the acolyte, they played with the star wars universe and created what they wanted out of whole cloth. Again, I am out of my league talking about a show I haven't seen, but if they created new characters to develop and work with then that is great and opens up the possibilities. Once the world is expanded its up to the writers to really show us what they can do. Sadly I don't watch as many movies or TV as I used to so I am way behind the times.
Watchmen as a comic was already a terrible deconstruction of the superhero by an avowed communist writer, Alan Moore. The show was a deconstruction OF a deconstruction. No wonder it was canceled after one season. Woke storytelling always comes off like a parody even when it isn't.
I didn't enjoy the show, but then again I don't like the original story either. I tend to agree with Razorfist on the subject of Alan Moore aka Treebeard. The man is so obsessed with Margaret Thatcher's ghost that he'd jump from his own roof if the copious amounts of drugs he has taken and probably still takes, convinced him that it'd piss her off.
Luckily, we know now thanks to his many, many interviews over the years how to acquire the garlic and crosses necessary to ward off this particular vampire. Simply tell him the truth.
The only good thing to come out of Watchmen was Rorschach, and once he was gone, well it's telling that the story ends pretty much directly after.
Taking drugs does not in fact give you or anyone else extrasensory perception no matter how many times you hamfist the idea into your stories.
Everyone who has ever adapted one of your works for film has made a more coherent story than you did originally. Yes, even that mess that was From Hell and even that garbage pile that was The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
I loved the graphic novel and the movie, though different, worked for me as well. The changes made sense given the constraints of runtime. I actively avoid content about actors and creators for the issues with Allan Moore you mention. They have so much potential to ruin something that I previously enjoyed so I run the other way when they start shooting their mouth off
Completely fair policy. I don't quite have it in me to be able to do the same, though I wish a lot of the time I could.
For me, Snyder's version was just straight up better. Taking out the squid was on its own a monumental improvement. I know you know what I'm talking about, but I'll refrain from saying more so as to avoid potentially spoiling anyone who may not have read or watched it yet.
I think the best critique I have ever heard about "woke" shows becomes the litmus test. Is the trait the characters complete identity or just a trait in a more complex and nuanced development of the character. So if the character is gay, is that the only dimension of his character? Or is he a fully fleshed out character who happens to be gay? It is poor character development if a single trait completely defines your character.
Elio is an example of this. Many at Pixar complained that the movie was "soulless" after the gay elements were removed.
Indicates that the movie was all about the gay then, doesn't it?
Exactly 👏🏻 They had no story to tell, only an identity to advertise for. A whole movie made around the writer or director’s self-insert with nothing worthwhile to say. Only “look at me!”
Attention-seeking + Identity-focus = Entertainment Disaster
Yes that is what condemns most of the “updated for modern audiences” fare. Watchmen was unique in that they did the work to make their characters fit the story
Now full disclosure I haven't seen it, but I can appreciate that. I remember there being a big fan backlash when it came out, I think another issue has to do with established IP's. I think that requires either an open minded audience or those types of changes have to be made to characters who do not have fully developed back stories. The more explored and developed the IP the less wiggle room the audience will give the writers for changes.
Very true. With established IPs, part of the criticism is judging if the changes made were justified based on the medium. In some cases they are. In others (Ozymandius’ change in personality), they’re not.
Interesting, see with established IP I think instead of fleshing out or adding to established characters, create a new one. As much as many people have criticisms of the acolyte, they played with the star wars universe and created what they wanted out of whole cloth. Again, I am out of my league talking about a show I haven't seen, but if they created new characters to develop and work with then that is great and opens up the possibilities. Once the world is expanded its up to the writers to really show us what they can do. Sadly I don't watch as many movies or TV as I used to so I am way behind the times.
Totally agree, it was good and wasn't given the recognition it deserved.
Watchmen as a comic was already a terrible deconstruction of the superhero by an avowed communist writer, Alan Moore. The show was a deconstruction OF a deconstruction. No wonder it was canceled after one season. Woke storytelling always comes off like a parody even when it isn't.
I didn't enjoy the show, but then again I don't like the original story either. I tend to agree with Razorfist on the subject of Alan Moore aka Treebeard. The man is so obsessed with Margaret Thatcher's ghost that he'd jump from his own roof if the copious amounts of drugs he has taken and probably still takes, convinced him that it'd piss her off.
Luckily, we know now thanks to his many, many interviews over the years how to acquire the garlic and crosses necessary to ward off this particular vampire. Simply tell him the truth.
The only good thing to come out of Watchmen was Rorschach, and once he was gone, well it's telling that the story ends pretty much directly after.
Taking drugs does not in fact give you or anyone else extrasensory perception no matter how many times you hamfist the idea into your stories.
Everyone who has ever adapted one of your works for film has made a more coherent story than you did originally. Yes, even that mess that was From Hell and even that garbage pile that was The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
I loved the graphic novel and the movie, though different, worked for me as well. The changes made sense given the constraints of runtime. I actively avoid content about actors and creators for the issues with Allan Moore you mention. They have so much potential to ruin something that I previously enjoyed so I run the other way when they start shooting their mouth off
Completely fair policy. I don't quite have it in me to be able to do the same, though I wish a lot of the time I could.
For me, Snyder's version was just straight up better. Taking out the squid was on its own a monumental improvement. I know you know what I'm talking about, but I'll refrain from saying more so as to avoid potentially spoiling anyone who may not have read or watched it yet.
The TV show actually shows the squid, and its one of the show's stunning moments.