Was never a Trekkie, so can't comment on your DS9 lore here. However, like you I was a HUGE X-Men fan growing up. I always thought that the Magneto/Rogue romance was itself a gigantic call-out to exactly what you are talking about here.
Rogue herself, due to her mutation, never really got the chance to learn this inoculation against bad men. Thanks to her powers, she was forced to push EVERYONE away by reflex and from a pretty young age. Meaning that if anyone was persistent enough to simply ignore her attempts to keep them at arms length and continue to pursue anyway, well not only did she lack the necessary defenses but in truth she was so touch and affection starved that she instead possessed a critical weakness.
Enter Gambit and later Magneto. No need to beat a dead horse, Kristin already covered the issues with Magneto perfectly. Instead, let's focus in on those early years with Gambit.
Now while arguments can be made thanks to the continuing story that Gambit eventually cleaned up his act, back then that was absolutely not the case. He was every bit a dark triad personality, taking part in events like the Mutant Massacre because it benefited him. But he was handsome and charming, with just the right amount of Cajun accent to make it interesting and quirky rather than incomprehensible.
He was the absolute worst thing for Rogue back then, and yet because she possessed no defenses against him, she of course fell head over heels for him. Literally the only thing that saved her was her powers making it impossible for her to touch him without killing him. He had her essentially in the palm of his hand for years, and while their stormy romance and UST provided a mountain of entertainment for the readers, it also worked unintentionally well to provide any young ladies that roadmap for what to look out for.
And then of course, Marvel did the worst possible thing with it and started softening Gambit up, providing that false "I can fix him!" hope that Kristin spoke about. Last I had checked in on the comics, the two of them are married now. Whereas in reality, the end result of their relationship should have been her tossing him into orbit a long time ago.
Haha. Trek never really appealed to me honestly. It always struck me as too "clean". I get that there's plenty of grit and dirt in the stories told in the franchise, but the aesthetic of the franchise and really the Federation itself with its high minded ideals and post scarcity society is what turns me away. I lean more towards cyberpunk for my sci-fi, it's always struck me as far more believable.
That's fair. For what it's worth, DS9 is more consistently gritty than the other series, and Bajor is certainly not a post scarcity society, so that might be worth your time exploring, but your point is very accurate of Star Trek overall.
Excellent article as always. While I wasn't a huge Magneto fan—to my shame—Dukat's dark triad is undeniable. Definitely one of the best Trek villains ever, and beyond.
I'll just add that while Dukat obsesses over Kira, as though validation from her would provide redemption, it is Damar who actually comes to redemption thanks to her help at the end. Though not the face of Bajor's suffering like Dukat, Damar still represents much of the suffering for her people. It is even her reproach of him, "Yeah, Damar, what kind of people give those orders?" after he learns his family was executed, that finally puts the decision before him of what kind of man he is going to be. (Season 7, Episode 22, "Tacking into the Wind.")
That’s the main difference: Damar was always a good man who genuinely thought he was doing the right thing for his people. He was never working in service to his own ego
He definitely never worked for his own ego, but I'm unsure if he was "always a good man," such as when he killed Ziyal. Although, he did that because he thought it would be right for Dukat, which brings us back to your article's point. Some aspects of Dukat's personality can be attractive to men as well, inspiring loyalty rather than anything romantic.
By the way, are you aware of "The Landing Party?" It's a weekly stream over on Graham Nolan's YouTube channel and they're working through Star Trek in production order. They're in the latter half of Star Trek's third season ("That Which Survives" is next). They might not continue into TNG and beyond, but we in chat try to encourage them to keep going. It's on Wednesdays starting at 8 PM ET, usually going for an hour.
This is interesting and thoughtful, Kristin. You're right that for many women, their first clear exposure to pathologically extractive characters will be in fiction. That's both an opportunity and a risk. I'd venture that they're made the more vulnerable to this because of the way that romance has been constructed since the 19th century.
Although you've talked about Dark Triad personalities, by far the most common pathology a woman will encounter will be a male narcissist because they're so common. (A rather dark joke of mine is: how many middle-aged divorced male narcissists does it take to change a light blub? As many as you want -- they're cheap as chips.)
In particular, narcissistic 'love-bombing' is everything that you described. If we educate/indoctrinate our women to treat 'instant connection' feelings as predestined love then we're setting them up for years, decades and lifelong exploitation by predators specialising in that form of predation.
The geek in me was interested in your examples too. As a side-issue, do you like all Star Trek or just DS9? You're further right than me for some American definition of right, and I find nearly all the franchise to be loaded with overwhelming American-liberal triumphalism. The values don't offend me nearly so much as the lack of self-examination, but arguably DS9 is the least worst of these. (I'm still offended by how everything is archtetyped and flagged though.)
I had never thought of Magneto from a romantic perspective. Add surging teen hormones though, and I can see it.
Unsurprisingly, I don't read much romance but it seems to me that swathes of that genre are constructed as escapism. Is there any niche that actually builds relational insight? Is it even still romance if it does that or does it drift into some other genre?
Interesting perspective for a guy. Thanks for some needed writing material. (Plus I can see now how easily some women might become villains themselves as they embrace the dark guy.)
(also boy does JesterBell - a huge rogue fan - have thoughts on xmen '97)
I think the best warning is to teach about the dangers of pragmatism and utilitarianism, if a person of interest is all about maximization of either of those things, then you are already dehumanized. Their interest in you will be at your abuse and expense, and ultimate suffering. Your utility in their life will drive them to utilize their manipulative tools to reel you in, you will be their catch, to be flayed and deboned, gutted and discarded. No different from a trout.
Was never a Trekkie, so can't comment on your DS9 lore here. However, like you I was a HUGE X-Men fan growing up. I always thought that the Magneto/Rogue romance was itself a gigantic call-out to exactly what you are talking about here.
Rogue herself, due to her mutation, never really got the chance to learn this inoculation against bad men. Thanks to her powers, she was forced to push EVERYONE away by reflex and from a pretty young age. Meaning that if anyone was persistent enough to simply ignore her attempts to keep them at arms length and continue to pursue anyway, well not only did she lack the necessary defenses but in truth she was so touch and affection starved that she instead possessed a critical weakness.
Enter Gambit and later Magneto. No need to beat a dead horse, Kristin already covered the issues with Magneto perfectly. Instead, let's focus in on those early years with Gambit.
Now while arguments can be made thanks to the continuing story that Gambit eventually cleaned up his act, back then that was absolutely not the case. He was every bit a dark triad personality, taking part in events like the Mutant Massacre because it benefited him. But he was handsome and charming, with just the right amount of Cajun accent to make it interesting and quirky rather than incomprehensible.
He was the absolute worst thing for Rogue back then, and yet because she possessed no defenses against him, she of course fell head over heels for him. Literally the only thing that saved her was her powers making it impossible for her to touch him without killing him. He had her essentially in the palm of his hand for years, and while their stormy romance and UST provided a mountain of entertainment for the readers, it also worked unintentionally well to provide any young ladies that roadmap for what to look out for.
And then of course, Marvel did the worst possible thing with it and started softening Gambit up, providing that false "I can fix him!" hope that Kristin spoke about. Last I had checked in on the comics, the two of them are married now. Whereas in reality, the end result of their relationship should have been her tossing him into orbit a long time ago.
Never too late to become a Trekkie!
(One of us! One of us!)
Haha. Trek never really appealed to me honestly. It always struck me as too "clean". I get that there's plenty of grit and dirt in the stories told in the franchise, but the aesthetic of the franchise and really the Federation itself with its high minded ideals and post scarcity society is what turns me away. I lean more towards cyberpunk for my sci-fi, it's always struck me as far more believable.
That's fair. For what it's worth, DS9 is more consistently gritty than the other series, and Bajor is certainly not a post scarcity society, so that might be worth your time exploring, but your point is very accurate of Star Trek overall.
Excellent article as always. While I wasn't a huge Magneto fan—to my shame—Dukat's dark triad is undeniable. Definitely one of the best Trek villains ever, and beyond.
I'll just add that while Dukat obsesses over Kira, as though validation from her would provide redemption, it is Damar who actually comes to redemption thanks to her help at the end. Though not the face of Bajor's suffering like Dukat, Damar still represents much of the suffering for her people. It is even her reproach of him, "Yeah, Damar, what kind of people give those orders?" after he learns his family was executed, that finally puts the decision before him of what kind of man he is going to be. (Season 7, Episode 22, "Tacking into the Wind.")
That’s the main difference: Damar was always a good man who genuinely thought he was doing the right thing for his people. He was never working in service to his own ego
He definitely never worked for his own ego, but I'm unsure if he was "always a good man," such as when he killed Ziyal. Although, he did that because he thought it would be right for Dukat, which brings us back to your article's point. Some aspects of Dukat's personality can be attractive to men as well, inspiring loyalty rather than anything romantic.
By the way, are you aware of "The Landing Party?" It's a weekly stream over on Graham Nolan's YouTube channel and they're working through Star Trek in production order. They're in the latter half of Star Trek's third season ("That Which Survives" is next). They might not continue into TNG and beyond, but we in chat try to encourage them to keep going. It's on Wednesdays starting at 8 PM ET, usually going for an hour.
We must genocide all aliens to protect our children!
Many agree
This is interesting and thoughtful, Kristin. You're right that for many women, their first clear exposure to pathologically extractive characters will be in fiction. That's both an opportunity and a risk. I'd venture that they're made the more vulnerable to this because of the way that romance has been constructed since the 19th century.
Although you've talked about Dark Triad personalities, by far the most common pathology a woman will encounter will be a male narcissist because they're so common. (A rather dark joke of mine is: how many middle-aged divorced male narcissists does it take to change a light blub? As many as you want -- they're cheap as chips.)
In particular, narcissistic 'love-bombing' is everything that you described. If we educate/indoctrinate our women to treat 'instant connection' feelings as predestined love then we're setting them up for years, decades and lifelong exploitation by predators specialising in that form of predation.
The geek in me was interested in your examples too. As a side-issue, do you like all Star Trek or just DS9? You're further right than me for some American definition of right, and I find nearly all the franchise to be loaded with overwhelming American-liberal triumphalism. The values don't offend me nearly so much as the lack of self-examination, but arguably DS9 is the least worst of these. (I'm still offended by how everything is archtetyped and flagged though.)
I had never thought of Magneto from a romantic perspective. Add surging teen hormones though, and I can see it.
Unsurprisingly, I don't read much romance but it seems to me that swathes of that genre are constructed as escapism. Is there any niche that actually builds relational insight? Is it even still romance if it does that or does it drift into some other genre?
This is beautiful work. Insightful as always.
Interesting perspective for a guy. Thanks for some needed writing material. (Plus I can see now how easily some women might become villains themselves as they embrace the dark guy.)
(also boy does JesterBell - a huge rogue fan - have thoughts on xmen '97)
https://youtu.be/-oNnKgVECZE?si=7kVhGcVhYnkUfsIo
I think the best warning is to teach about the dangers of pragmatism and utilitarianism, if a person of interest is all about maximization of either of those things, then you are already dehumanized. Their interest in you will be at your abuse and expense, and ultimate suffering. Your utility in their life will drive them to utilize their manipulative tools to reel you in, you will be their catch, to be flayed and deboned, gutted and discarded. No different from a trout.
Here is some fun reading
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/understanding-narcissism/201711/why-do-narcissists-and-borderlines-fall-in-love
I plan to raise my daughter that if anyone degrades her or dehumanizes her flee quickly. Unless it is your drill sgt stay away.