The video you posted the other day was great. Yeah, I know I’m one of your usual viewers, so maybe I’m not helping your point, but I did appreciate the jab at Twitter’s hiring standards.
On the indie vs. trad thing, though, I’ve found myself at a weird crossroads.
I started publishing about a decade ago, always indie. My stuff is marketed as explicitly politically incorrect, and I’m also white, conservative, a veteran, and (while not a great one) a Christian. So back when I was querying in 2014–2015, I was a hard pass.
Then, after putting out a few books, I tried my luck again hoping maybe a little nepotism from the veteran/writing community could help me connect with a lit agent. What actually happened was I’d get a digital handshake, trade a few emails, then get ghosted... only to see the same agent pop up on Twitter later talking shit, not realizing I could see it.
And honestly, if you know even a little bit about marketing, unless you’re J.K. Rowling or Stephen King, there’s nothing stopping you from making more money indie than trad, not to mention keeping creative control. So yeah, I’m on the indie bus for more than a few reasons.
However, I recently signed a shopping agreement to get one of my series made into a TV show. While talking to the producer and one of the publicists, the subject came up, studios want the book on shelves when the show drops, and they want it stamped with a Big Five logo for marketing reasons.
So now I’m staring down a very real fork in the road where the answer to, “What can a trad publisher realistically do for me that I can’t do myself?” is: “Absolutely fucking nothing.”
AND
“If you want this TV show to happen, you need that Big Five logo on the spine.”
Any way you could give the trad publisher ONLY hard cover rights? Ideally you could use traditional structures only fir things you can’t do yourself (like the show) or things you don’t want to bother with (hardback or audiobook)
That's yet to be determined. But that hardback suggestion's a good idea, thank you.
But the audiobook's my bread and butter and HARD off the table unless they want to make thier own version of it. The ones I have now are ore of an audiodrama adaptation.
Thanks to ease of access from Amazon via KDP, 95% of Indie authors are just hobbyist writers who are lazy as hell and don't want to learn the business part of the literary business to become professional authors. As hobbyists oversaturating the professional market while Amazon brings the entire industry tumbling down from their stupidity, all while they hope they will be the 1% that get the "golden watch" book deal from PenguinRandomSchuster.
The only thing I disagree with is when you said:
"The system isn’t going to change for you. It doesn’t care about your complaints, your arguments, your video essays. The Big Five will keep acquiring the same kinds of books from the same kinds of people. None of that is your problem if you’ve actually left."
For an indie that is always going to be a problem because the Indies that have fashioned themselves after the PenguinRandomSchuster Cerebrus will keep their bullshit alive and that trickles down. The vast majority of the indie world does feel that the system will change and that their complaints are heard, etc. This trickles all the way down into the weird ass submission criteria most of these people upload because they still feel they can be at the top of the heap if they just click their heels three times and wish there's no place like their publishing home.
You're not wrong. I guess that's what I want people to shake loose of: Fashioning an "indie publisher" that looks exactly like a trad publisher but with a Great Value label doesn't change anything; it keeps the broken system running, and on top
I enjoyed and agreed with the video. I couldn't think of anything to add (maybe I need to watch it again).
My question after reading this post, though, are what are the indie author community equivalents of Hugo nominations and New York Times Book Review coverage? They don't have to be exact duplicates of those or other mainstream organizations/systems, but serve the same purposes for the indie author community.
I guess that begs the question: are indie author community facsimiles of these awards and reviews necessary and good for the indie author community?
No. Any indie “award” is just a mimickry of the same hierarchical in-group posturing as its trad pub equivalent. It’s the money holders choosing their friends for made up titles, which are then added to Twitter handles. They do nothing, certainly not move books or increase your exposure to new audiences
Brian Niemeier, JD Cowan, and David V Stewart have been on the "No Big Five" road for a good long while, and all are here on Substack. All three would potentially make good subjects for an interview by you.
Brian's latest post says that the path forward is not via the modern one, but by the traditional one.
I think we may be in a bit of a 'wrinkle in time'. Trad v Indi... In another ten years there may not be a distinction. But as I'm late in Act 3 of my personal story, it won't matter much for me. I'm not in this to support a family or need book sales income to keep my laptop charged... in it for the 'love of the game'. (enough of the bad references...) Thanks Kristen. You are a warrior. I pray I'm never on the wrong side of your spear. Stay strong.
I'm not going to deny it. If I somehow made the NYT bestseller's list, I'd enjoy it.
But am I going to let someone else tell me how to write my stories? No, they are my stories. I wrote them, I shed sleep over them, and I hoard them, releasing them in small bits.
The video you posted the other day was great. Yeah, I know I’m one of your usual viewers, so maybe I’m not helping your point, but I did appreciate the jab at Twitter’s hiring standards.
On the indie vs. trad thing, though, I’ve found myself at a weird crossroads.
I started publishing about a decade ago, always indie. My stuff is marketed as explicitly politically incorrect, and I’m also white, conservative, a veteran, and (while not a great one) a Christian. So back when I was querying in 2014–2015, I was a hard pass.
Then, after putting out a few books, I tried my luck again hoping maybe a little nepotism from the veteran/writing community could help me connect with a lit agent. What actually happened was I’d get a digital handshake, trade a few emails, then get ghosted... only to see the same agent pop up on Twitter later talking shit, not realizing I could see it.
And honestly, if you know even a little bit about marketing, unless you’re J.K. Rowling or Stephen King, there’s nothing stopping you from making more money indie than trad, not to mention keeping creative control. So yeah, I’m on the indie bus for more than a few reasons.
However, I recently signed a shopping agreement to get one of my series made into a TV show. While talking to the producer and one of the publicists, the subject came up, studios want the book on shelves when the show drops, and they want it stamped with a Big Five logo for marketing reasons.
So now I’m staring down a very real fork in the road where the answer to, “What can a trad publisher realistically do for me that I can’t do myself?” is: “Absolutely fucking nothing.”
AND
“If you want this TV show to happen, you need that Big Five logo on the spine.”
ANWAY, love the content. Keep kicking ass.
Any way you could give the trad publisher ONLY hard cover rights? Ideally you could use traditional structures only fir things you can’t do yourself (like the show) or things you don’t want to bother with (hardback or audiobook)
That's yet to be determined. But that hardback suggestion's a good idea, thank you.
But the audiobook's my bread and butter and HARD off the table unless they want to make thier own version of it. The ones I have now are ore of an audiodrama adaptation.
Winning 🙌🏻
Thanks to ease of access from Amazon via KDP, 95% of Indie authors are just hobbyist writers who are lazy as hell and don't want to learn the business part of the literary business to become professional authors. As hobbyists oversaturating the professional market while Amazon brings the entire industry tumbling down from their stupidity, all while they hope they will be the 1% that get the "golden watch" book deal from PenguinRandomSchuster.
The only thing I disagree with is when you said:
"The system isn’t going to change for you. It doesn’t care about your complaints, your arguments, your video essays. The Big Five will keep acquiring the same kinds of books from the same kinds of people. None of that is your problem if you’ve actually left."
For an indie that is always going to be a problem because the Indies that have fashioned themselves after the PenguinRandomSchuster Cerebrus will keep their bullshit alive and that trickles down. The vast majority of the indie world does feel that the system will change and that their complaints are heard, etc. This trickles all the way down into the weird ass submission criteria most of these people upload because they still feel they can be at the top of the heap if they just click their heels three times and wish there's no place like their publishing home.
You're not wrong. I guess that's what I want people to shake loose of: Fashioning an "indie publisher" that looks exactly like a trad publisher but with a Great Value label doesn't change anything; it keeps the broken system running, and on top
I enjoyed and agreed with the video. I couldn't think of anything to add (maybe I need to watch it again).
My question after reading this post, though, are what are the indie author community equivalents of Hugo nominations and New York Times Book Review coverage? They don't have to be exact duplicates of those or other mainstream organizations/systems, but serve the same purposes for the indie author community.
I guess that begs the question: are indie author community facsimiles of these awards and reviews necessary and good for the indie author community?
No. Any indie “award” is just a mimickry of the same hierarchical in-group posturing as its trad pub equivalent. It’s the money holders choosing their friends for made up titles, which are then added to Twitter handles. They do nothing, certainly not move books or increase your exposure to new audiences
Bouchercon and all those bullshit crime awards have entered the chat.
Fighting words. Nice.
Brian Niemeier, JD Cowan, and David V Stewart have been on the "No Big Five" road for a good long while, and all are here on Substack. All three would potentially make good subjects for an interview by you.
Brian's latest post says that the path forward is not via the modern one, but by the traditional one.
https://brianniemeier.substack.com/p/you-are-not-bootstrapping-your-way
I think we may be in a bit of a 'wrinkle in time'. Trad v Indi... In another ten years there may not be a distinction. But as I'm late in Act 3 of my personal story, it won't matter much for me. I'm not in this to support a family or need book sales income to keep my laptop charged... in it for the 'love of the game'. (enough of the bad references...) Thanks Kristen. You are a warrior. I pray I'm never on the wrong side of your spear. Stay strong.
I'm not going to deny it. If I somehow made the NYT bestseller's list, I'd enjoy it.
But am I going to let someone else tell me how to write my stories? No, they are my stories. I wrote them, I shed sleep over them, and I hoard them, releasing them in small bits.
I've always said I'm a writer, not a marketer.